• laptop making a whirring noise after downloading Ubuntu ISO file

    From Adam@adam@no_thanks.com to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Thu Mar 18 23:03:58 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu


    Laptop making whirring noise after downloading Ubuntu ISO file.

    Thought the HDD might be the problem. Took out the HDD and cloned it. Quiet. No problem.

    Blew compressed air to clean the fan. Not much dust.

    Put everything back together. The whirring noise is still there.

    What else can it be ?

    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From CaseYin@caseyin@xs4all.nl to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Fri Mar 19 08:59:00 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    Op 19-03-2021 om 07:03 schreef Adam:

    Laptop making whirring noise after downloading Ubuntu ISO file.

    Thought the HDD might be the problem.  Took out the HDD and cloned it. Quiet.  No problem.

    Blew compressed air to clean the fan.  Not much dust.

    Put everything back together.  The whirring noise is still there.

    What else can it be ?

    REMOVE THE CD! :-)
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Adam@adam@no_thanks.com to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Fri Mar 19 09:02:13 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    On 03/19/2021 12:59 AM, CaseYin wrote:
    Op 19-03-2021 om 07:03 schreef Adam:

    Laptop making whirring noise after downloading Ubuntu ISO file.

    Thought the HDD might be the problem. Took out the HDD and cloned it. Quiet. No problem.

    Blew compressed air to clean the fan. Not much dust.

    Put everything back together. The whirring noise is still there.

    What else can it be ?

    REMOVE THE CD! :-)

    Thanks, but there's no info about removing/replacing optical drive in User’s Manual...

    https://www.asus.com/us/supportonly/N550JX/HelpDesk_Manual

    Found some YouTube videos...

    How-to Asus N550 N550JV adding 2nd HDD / SSD using DVD / optical drive bay with HDD Caddy
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2MRiHuGF_E&t=27s&ab_channel=CevinT.

    but mine looks a little different. Please help.
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Bobbie Sellers@bliss@mouse-potato.com to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Fri Mar 19 09:41:00 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    On 3/19/21 9:02 AM, Adam wrote:
    On 03/19/2021 12:59 AM, CaseYin wrote:
    Op 19-03-2021 om 07:03 schreef Adam:

    Laptop making whirring noise after downloading Ubuntu ISO file.

    Thought the HDD might be the problem.  Took out the HDD and cloned
    it.  Quiet.  No problem.

    Blew compressed air to clean the fan.  Not much dust.

    Put everything back together.  The whirring noise is still there.

    What else can it be ?

    REMOVE THE CD! :-)

    Thanks, but there's no info about removing/replacing optical drive in User’s Manual...

    https://www.asus.com/us/supportonly/N550JX/HelpDesk_Manual

    Found some YouTube videos...

    How-to Asus N550 N550JV adding 2nd HDD / SSD using DVD / optical drive
    bay with HDD Caddy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2MRiHuGF_E&t=27s&ab_channel=CevinT.

    but mine looks a little different.  Please help.

    Look for the manuals for your machine not videos of what someone
    is doing with a similar machine.

    YouTube videos are good for simple problems.
    CD drives are easy to remove generally. Usually held
    by a single screw and friction.

    bliss - “Nearly any fool can use a Linux computer. Many do.” After all
    here I am...

    --
    bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Paul@nospam@needed.invalid to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Fri Mar 19 14:02:47 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    Adam wrote:
    On 03/19/2021 12:59 AM, CaseYin wrote:
    Op 19-03-2021 om 07:03 schreef Adam:

    Laptop making whirring noise after downloading Ubuntu ISO file.

    Thought the HDD might be the problem. Took out the HDD and cloned
    it. Quiet. No problem.

    Blew compressed air to clean the fan. Not much dust.

    Put everything back together. The whirring noise is still there.

    What else can it be ?

    REMOVE THE CD! :-)

    Thanks, but there's no info about removing/replacing optical drive in User’s Manual...

    You over-interpreted CaseYin's message.

    The answer you got was to:

    1) Press the eject button located on the optical drive tray.
    2) The optical drive tray opens a fraction of an inch.
    Laptop optical drives do not have full motor assist
    and long-travel trays. Just the spring releases and
    the tray must be manually moved open with your fingers.
    3) Now, grab the exposed portion of the tray and open the
    tray just a little bit, to check for a mini-CD or a
    regular-sized piece of media.

    Media placed in a laptop drive, usually has an interference-fit.
    The media presses the hub and compresses it a bit.
    To remove the media, requires the hub to "let go" of
    the center hole. You have to ease the CD or DVD or mini-CD
    off the hub.

    Once the media is removed, close the tray again.

    The tray motor does not rotate if no media is present.

    If the tray motor does not rotate, there will be silence.

    If the optical beam detects an obstruction in the way
    that is interpreted as media, then the motor spins the
    media so that the laser can go and find the groove.

    The motors that rotate such things, tend to be three-phase.
    Rather than media being rotated by stepper motors. Three
    phase motors have low torque ripple, giving "smooth data bits".

    Three phase motors, there's a motor controller chip, and
    it makes three sine waves that are out of phase. The motor
    controller can vary the frequency of the since waves, it
    can vary the amplitude. This allows a motor controller to
    accelerate or decelerate the media. Since optical media
    does things like CAV (constant angular velocity) or CLV (constant
    linear velocity), the equipment is full of tricks. By
    varying the frequency, the media can spin screaming-fast
    at 48X ("whoosh" noise), or movie-slow at 1X (barely audible).
    This is why the noises that come out of there, can vary a lot.

    But without media in there, it would be a defect for the
    motor to start spinning. It would require a detection
    defect, for the motor to rotate when no media is present.
    The motor may "blip" a bit, at the instant the tray
    closes, but it should not stay running.

    CaseYin did not want you to do "surgery". That's not the request.

    Simply open the tray and check for media! That was the answer.

    Paul
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Adam@adam@no_thanks.com to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Fri Mar 19 13:03:27 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    On 03/19/2021 09:41 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
    On 3/19/21 9:02 AM, Adam wrote:
    On 03/19/2021 12:59 AM, CaseYin wrote:
    Op 19-03-2021 om 07:03 schreef Adam:

    Laptop making whirring noise after downloading Ubuntu ISO file.

    Thought the HDD might be the problem. Took out the HDD and cloned it. Quiet. No problem.

    Blew compressed air to clean the fan. Not much dust.

    Put everything back together. The whirring noise is still there.

    What else can it be ?

    REMOVE THE CD! :-)

    Thanks, but there's no info about removing/replacing optical drive in User’s Manual...

    https://www.asus.com/us/supportonly/N550JX/HelpDesk_Manual

    Found some YouTube videos...

    How-to Asus N550 N550JV adding 2nd HDD / SSD using DVD / optical drive bay with HDD Caddy
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2MRiHuGF_E&t=27s&ab_channel=CevinT.

    but mine looks a little different. Please help.

    Look for the manuals for your machine not videos of what someone
    is doing with a similar machine.


    Again, no info in User's Manual about removing/replacing optical drive.
    YouTube video was the next best thing (despite being off by a revision or two) I could find.

    YouTube videos are good for simple problems.
    CD drives are easy to remove generally. Usually held
    by a single screw and friction.


    Got the optical drive out through the HDD bay after removing two screws from the outside holding the optical drive in place. Saw an optical drive screw hole from
    the HDD bay. Got leverage of the screw hole with a phillips screwdriver and pushed the optical drive out.

    Here's a pic of the "old" optical drive...

    https://i.postimg.cc/L8JNK1Cb/IMG-0079.jpg


    bliss - “Nearly any fool can use a Linux computer. Many do.” After all here I am...


    Using basic Linux features is not too bad, advanced Linux configuration can get quite gnarly. :-)

    I'm still at Level 2-ish. Highest Level 5 is for gurus (like Paul, et al). :-)
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Adam@adam@no_thanks.com to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Fri Mar 19 13:57:30 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    On 03/19/2021 11:02 AM, Paul wrote:
    Adam wrote:
    On 03/19/2021 12:59 AM, CaseYin wrote:
    Op 19-03-2021 om 07:03 schreef Adam:

    Laptop making whirring noise after downloading Ubuntu ISO file.

    Thought the HDD might be the problem. Took out the HDD and cloned it. Quiet. No problem.

    Blew compressed air to clean the fan. Not much dust.

    Put everything back together. The whirring noise is still there.

    What else can it be ?

    REMOVE THE CD! :-)

    Thanks, but there's no info about removing/replacing optical drive in User’s Manual...

    You over-interpreted CaseYin's message.

    The answer you got was to:

    1) Press the eject button located on the optical drive tray.
    2) The optical drive tray opens a fraction of an inch.
    Laptop optical drives do not have full motor assist
    and long-travel trays. Just the spring releases and
    the tray must be manually moved open with your fingers.
    3) Now, grab the exposed portion of the tray and open the
    tray just a little bit, to check for a mini-CD or a
    regular-sized piece of media.


    Thanks, Guru Paul !!

    Because the tray was already empty, I got his hint that
    the problem may be optical drive-related. So, going one step further,
    I removed the optical drive entirely.


    Media placed in a laptop drive, usually has an interference-fit.
    The media presses the hub and compresses it a bit.
    To remove the media, requires the hub to "let go" of
    the center hole. You have to ease the CD or DVD or mini-CD
    off the hub.

    Once the media is removed, close the tray again.

    The tray motor does not rotate if no media is present.

    If the tray motor does not rotate, there will be silence.

    If the optical beam detects an obstruction in the way
    that is interpreted as media, then the motor spins the
    media so that the laser can go and find the groove.

    The motors that rotate such things, tend to be three-phase.
    Rather than media being rotated by stepper motors. Three
    phase motors have low torque ripple, giving "smooth data bits".

    Three phase motors, there's a motor controller chip, and
    it makes three sine waves that are out of phase. The motor
    controller can vary the frequency of the sine waves, it
    can vary the amplitude. This allows a motor controller to
    accelerate or decelerate the media. Since optical media
    does things like CAV (constant angular velocity) or CLV (constant
    linear velocity), the equipment is full of tricks. By
    varying the frequency, the media can spin screaming-fast
    at 48X ("whoosh" noise), or movie-slow at 1X (barely audible).
    This is why the noises that come out of there, can vary a lot.

    But without media in there, it would be a defect for the
    motor to start spinning. It would require a detection
    defect, for the motor to rotate when no media is present.
    The motor may "blip" a bit, at the instant the tray
    closes, but it should not stay running.

    CaseYin did not want you to do "surgery". That's not the request.

    Simply open the tray and check for media! That was the answer.

    Paul


    Anyways, got the optical drive out through the HDD bay after removing two screws from
    the outside holding the optical drive in place. Saw an optical drive screw hole from the HDD bay.
    Got leverage of the screw hole with a phillips screwdriver and slid the optical drive out.

    Here's a pic of the "old" optical drive...

    https://i.postimg.cc/L8JNK1Cb/IMG-0079.jpg

    It's old so I'll replace it. How about an external USB Lite-On Optical Drives EBAU108-01 ?
    Internal optical drives are harder to match. Maybe I'll disable the optical drive via BIOS and
    stick the old optical drive back in to fill the hole.

    After removing the optical drive, the laptop is still quite noisy.
    What else can be the cause ?

    I'm getting nervous and have been planning to move to a newer laptop.
    Specs are different so simply inserting the HDD in the newer laptop didn't work.
    Had graphics issues because video is different [ATI Mobility Radeon (old) vs Intel HD Graphics (newer)].
    Is there a workaround ? Or, do I need a new install of Ubuntu ?

    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From azigni@azigni@yahoo.com to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Sat Mar 20 01:11:30 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Adam@adam@no_thanks.com to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Fri Mar 19 19:02:50 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
    I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear


    Thanks, is it normal for the cooling fan to kick into
    high gear after starting the laptop for only minutes (~15) ?
    I've been shutting down the laptop for fear that
    it'll completely fail before I get all data from it.

    I've been powering it on only when absolutely necessary.

    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Paul@nospam@needed.invalid to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Fri Mar 19 22:44:01 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    Adam wrote:


    Thanks, Guru Paul !!

    Because the tray was already empty, I got his hint that
    the problem may be optical drive-related. So, going one step further,
    I removed the optical drive entirely.

    Anyways, got the optical drive out through the HDD bay after removing
    two screws from
    the outside holding the optical drive in place. Saw an optical drive
    screw hole from the HDD bay.
    Got leverage of the screw hole with a phillips screwdriver and slid the optical drive out.

    Here's a pic of the "old" optical drive...

    https://i.postimg.cc/L8JNK1Cb/IMG-0079.jpg

    It's old so I'll replace it. How about an external USB Lite-On Optical Drives EBAU108-01 ?
    Internal optical drives are harder to match. Maybe I'll disable the
    optical drive via BIOS and
    stick the old optical drive back in to fill the hole.

    After removing the optical drive, the laptop is still quite noisy.
    What else can be the cause ?

    I'm getting nervous and have been planning to move to a newer laptop.
    Specs are different so simply inserting the HDD in the newer laptop
    didn't work.
    Had graphics issues because video is different [ATI Mobility Radeon
    (old) vs Intel HD Graphics (newer)].
    Is there a workaround ? Or, do I need a new install of Ubuntu ?


    I don't see a price, but depending on whether this seller ships to
    where you are, you might see a price.

    https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-PANASONIC-UJ890-Optical-PIK-UJ890/dp/B083RXC1J2

    There's no real reason to pull the drive if it's not the
    noise source.

    Maybe the machine has two cooling fans.

    *******

    If using non-proprietary video drivers (nouveau or similar),
    the OS should probe at boot time and select the driver that
    matches the current crop of hardware.

    That's how my Linux Mint USB stick (the one I use all the time
    for forensics), is able to boot on the various machines. It won't
    boot on the first computer, because it doesn't have the memory for it.

    When the OS is installed, it's still transportable. In fact, that's
    how I got Linux running on one of the machines (which doesn't know
    how to boot a DVD and the USB is only USB 1.1). I installed on a
    more capable machine (32 bit version), then moved the hard drive
    over to the machine in question and it booted.

    So there is transportability.

    *******

    If you had a stethoscope, you could press that on the
    surface and search for "peak sound" :-) Sound questions
    are pretty tough to solve from a distance, even with
    a sound sample.

    They make array microphones, but I don't know if there
    is the right kind of software to use with them. There
    is a very expensive array microphone, that has "beam steering",
    and allows extracting "tracks" from a live recording.
    You can record a band, use the software, and extract
    a "drum track", a "lead singer track" and so on, and
    it's all done by beam forming of the signals,
    as a step in post. Then if another sound engineer
    wants to mix down the tracks, they can take the
    artificially produced tracks and use them.

    Without the beam steering, the recording would already be mixed
    in the broad sense (each individual microphone, only
    hears what one ear on your head would hear. But using
    maths and phase relationship, it's possible to "point"
    the microphone array in a virtual sense and extract
    just a portion of the soundscape. The more microphones
    used, the tighter the virtual beam can be. Like, with
    two microphones (the way the human head works), it's
    still possible with neural processing, to pick out
    a particular conversation in a crowd. The software
    phased array approach, is just less clever.

    Some little academic projects, the grad students
    use 64 microphones. As proof how bored they are.
    When you do that, attention to detail counts, and
    the recording chips need to be sampling using
    a common clock and synchronization. Just buying 64
    USB microphones off Amazon might not work so well.

    By using technology like this, it's possible to
    scan an item (in post-processing) and determine the
    locus of the sound source. A stethoscope is cheaper.

    Paul
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Adam@adam@no_thanks.com to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Fri Mar 19 20:53:46 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    On 03/19/2021 07:44 PM, Paul wrote:
    Adam wrote:


    Thanks, Guru Paul !!

    Because the tray was already empty, I got his hint that
    the problem may be optical drive-related. So, going one step further,
    I removed the optical drive entirely.

    Anyways, got the optical drive out through the HDD bay after removing two screws from
    the outside holding the optical drive in place. Saw an optical drive screw hole from the HDD bay.
    Got leverage of the screw hole with a phillips screwdriver and slid the optical drive out.

    Here's a pic of the "old" optical drive...

    https://i.postimg.cc/L8JNK1Cb/IMG-0079.jpg

    It's old so I'll replace it. How about an external USB Lite-On Optical Drives EBAU108-01 ?
    Internal optical drives are harder to match. Maybe I'll disable the optical drive via BIOS and
    stick the old optical drive back in to fill the hole.

    After removing the optical drive, the laptop is still quite noisy.
    What else can be the cause ?

    I'm getting nervous and have been planning to move to a newer laptop.
    Specs are different so simply inserting the HDD in the newer laptop didn't work.
    Had graphics issues because video is different [ATI Mobility Radeon (old) vs Intel HD Graphics (newer)].
    Is there a workaround ? Or, do I need a new install of Ubuntu ?


    I don't see a price, but depending on whether this seller ships to
    where you are, you might see a price.

    https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-PANASONIC-UJ890-Optical-PIK-UJ890/dp/B083RXC1J2

    There's no real reason to pull the drive if it's not the
    noise source.

    Maybe the machine has two cooling fans.

    *******

    If using non-proprietary video drivers (nouveau or similar),
    the OS should probe at boot time and select the driver that
    matches the current crop of hardware.

    That's how my Linux Mint USB stick (the one I use all the time
    for forensics), is able to boot on the various machines. It won't
    boot on the first computer, because it doesn't have the memory for it.

    When the OS is installed, it's still transportable. In fact, that's
    how I got Linux running on one of the machines (which doesn't know
    how to boot a DVD and the USB is only USB 1.1). I installed on a
    more capable machine (32 bit version), then moved the hard drive
    over to the machine in question and it booted.

    So there is transportability.

    *******

    If you had a stethoscope, you could press that on the
    surface and search for "peak sound" :-) Sound questions
    are pretty tough to solve from a distance, even with
    a sound sample.

    They make array microphones, but I don't know if there
    is the right kind of software to use with them. There
    is a very expensive array microphone, that has "beam steering",
    and allows extracting "tracks" from a live recording.
    You can record a band, use the software, and extract
    a "drum track", a "lead singer track" and so on, and
    it's all done by beam forming of the signals,
    as a step in post. Then if another sound engineer
    wants to mix down the tracks, they can take the
    artificially produced tracks and use them.

    Without the beam steering, the recording would already be mixed
    in the broad sense (each individual microphone, only
    hears what one ear on your head would hear. But using
    maths and phase relationship, it's possible to "point"
    the microphone array in a virtual sense and extract
    just a portion of the soundscape. The more microphones
    used, the tighter the virtual beam can be. Like, with
    two microphones (the way the human head works), it's
    still possible with neural processing, to pick out
    a particular conversation in a crowd. The software
    phased array approach, is just less clever.

    Some little academic projects, the grad students
    use 64 microphones. As proof how bored they are.
    When you do that, attention to detail counts, and
    the recording chips need to be sampling using
    a common clock and synchronization. Just buying 64
    USB microphones off Amazon might not work so well.

    By using technology like this, it's possible to
    scan an item (in post-processing) and determine the
    locus of the sound source. A stethoscope is cheaper.

    Paul

    Yes, you both (Azigni) might be right about the fan shifting into high gear. When I put my ear (stethoscope :-) closer to the keyboard,
    the sound was more toward the center-left of the keyboard away from
    the drives, HDD & optical, on the right half of the keyboard).
    Maybe the CPU thermal compound/paste got toasted after
    downloading the Ubuntu ISO file ? Yikes !!

    Here's a pic of the motherboard...

    https://i.postimg.cc/cCdBxkmh/IMG-0091.jpg

    Center-left of the keyboard would be right over the CPU.
    Now that's what I call surgery. :-)

    Why did Dr. Fauci have to go and make Fry's close ?
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Adam@adam@no_thanks.com to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Fri Mar 19 21:17:59 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    On 03/19/2021 07:44 PM, Paul wrote:
    Adam wrote:


    Thanks, Guru Paul !!

    Because the tray was already empty, I got his hint that
    the problem may be optical drive-related. So, going one step further,
    I removed the optical drive entirely.

    Anyways, got the optical drive out through the HDD bay after removing two screws from
    the outside holding the optical drive in place. Saw an optical drive screw hole from the HDD bay.
    Got leverage of the screw hole with a phillips screwdriver and slid the optical drive out.

    Here's a pic of the "old" optical drive...

    https://i.postimg.cc/L8JNK1Cb/IMG-0079.jpg

    It's old so I'll replace it. How about an external USB Lite-On Optical Drives EBAU108-01 ?
    Internal optical drives are harder to match. Maybe I'll disable the optical drive via BIOS and
    stick the old optical drive back in to fill the hole.

    After removing the optical drive, the laptop is still quite noisy.
    What else can be the cause ?

    I'm getting nervous and have been planning to move to a newer laptop.
    Specs are different so simply inserting the HDD in the newer laptop didn't work.
    Had graphics issues because video is different [ATI Mobility Radeon (old) vs Intel HD Graphics (newer)].
    Is there a workaround ? Or, do I need a new install of Ubuntu ?


    I don't see a price, but depending on whether this seller ships to
    where you are, you might see a price.

    https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-PANASONIC-UJ890-Optical-PIK-UJ890/dp/B083RXC1J2

    There's no real reason to pull the drive if it's not the
    noise source.

    Maybe the machine has two cooling fans.

    *******

    If using non-proprietary video drivers (nouveau or similar),
    the OS should probe at boot time and select the driver that
    matches the current crop of hardware.

    That's how my Linux Mint USB stick (the one I use all the time
    for forensics), is able to boot on the various machines. It won't
    boot on the first computer, because it doesn't have the memory for it.

    When the OS is installed, it's still transportable. In fact, that's
    how I got Linux running on one of the machines (which doesn't know
    how to boot a DVD and the USB is only USB 1.1). I installed on a
    more capable machine (32 bit version), then moved the hard drive
    over to the machine in question and it booted.

    So there is transportability.


    Then, the problem may be the newer laptop has hardware that
    is not supported by the existing Ubuntu version in use. So,
    I will install a newer version of Ubuntu then.


    *******

    If you had a stethoscope, you could press that on the
    surface and search for "peak sound" :-) Sound questions
    are pretty tough to solve from a distance, even with
    a sound sample.

    They make array microphones, but I don't know if there
    is the right kind of software to use with them. There
    is a very expensive array microphone, that has "beam steering",
    and allows extracting "tracks" from a live recording.
    You can record a band, use the software, and extract
    a "drum track", a "lead singer track" and so on, and
    it's all done by beam forming of the signals,
    as a step in post. Then if another sound engineer
    wants to mix down the tracks, they can take the
    artificially produced tracks and use them.

    Without the beam steering, the recording would already be mixed
    in the broad sense (each individual microphone, only
    hears what one ear on your head would hear. But using
    maths and phase relationship, it's possible to "point"
    the microphone array in a virtual sense and extract
    just a portion of the soundscape. The more microphones
    used, the tighter the virtual beam can be. Like, with
    two microphones (the way the human head works), it's
    still possible with neural processing, to pick out
    a particular conversation in a crowd. The software
    phased array approach, is just less clever.

    Some little academic projects, the grad students
    use 64 microphones. As proof how bored they are.
    When you do that, attention to detail counts, and
    the recording chips need to be sampling using
    a common clock and synchronization. Just buying 64
    USB microphones off Amazon might not work so well.

    By using technology like this, it's possible to
    scan an item (in post-processing) and determine the
    locus of the sound source. A stethoscope is cheaper.

    Paul
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From azigni@azigni@yahoo.com to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Sat Mar 20 04:27:45 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    Well, my Dell Desktop does the same sometimes, I don't know if it's
    normal or not though.
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Dirk T. Verbeek@dverbeek@xs4all.nl to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Sat Mar 20 11:02:53 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    Op 20-03-2021 om 03:02 schreef Adam:
    On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
    I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear


    Thanks, is it normal for the cooling fan to kick into
    high gear after starting the laptop for only minutes (~15) ?
    I've been shutting down the laptop for fear that
    it'll completely fail before I get all data from it.

    I've been powering it on only when absolutely necessary.

    Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Harold Stevens@wookie@limbo.localdomain to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Sat Mar 20 05:24:53 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    In <6055c84d$0$27927$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> Dirk T. Verbeek:

    On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
    I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear

    [Snip...]

    Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.

    Yes, and top in a terminal, to see what's chewing up CPU time.

    wyrd@limbo:~$ top
    top - 05:21:32 up 2:01, 2 users, load average: 0.12, 0.07, 0.06
    Tasks: 207 total, 2 running, 145 sleeping, 0 stopped, 1 zombie
    %Cpu(s): 0.4 us, 0.3 sy, 0.0 ni, 99.1 id, 0.2 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.0 si, 0.0 st KiB Mem : 16404820 total, 10303384 free, 1045212 used, 5056224 buff/cache
    KiB Swap: 2097148 total, 2097148 free, 0 used. 14984564 avail Mem

    PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND
    1374 root 20 0 698308 74020 43276 S 1.0 0.5 2:03.63 Xorg
    987 nut 20 0 21996 368 0 S 0.3 0.0 0:03.88 usbhid-ups
    6027 root 20 0 0 0 0 I 0.3 0.0 0:00.05 kworker/0:+
    1 root 20 0 225480 9144 6680 S 0.0 0.1 0:01.78 systemd
    2 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 kthreadd
    3 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 rcu_gp
    4 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 rcu_par_gp
    6 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 kworker/0:+
    9 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 mm_percpu_+
    10 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.14 ksoftirqd/0
    11 root 20 0 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:03.31 rcu_sched
    12 root rt 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.02 migration/0
    13 root -51 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 idle_injec+
    14 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 cpuhp/0
    15 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 cpuhp/1
    16 root -51 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 idle_injec+
    17 root rt 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.14 migration/1 wyrd@limbo:~$

    --
    Regards, Weird (Harold Stevens) * IMPORTANT EMAIL INFO FOLLOWS *
    Pardon any bogus email addresses (wookie) in place for spambots.
    Really, it's (wyrd) at att, dotted with net. * DO NOT SPAM IT. *
    I toss GoogleGroup (http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/).
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Jonathan N. Little@lws4art@gmail.com to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Sat Mar 20 08:58:06 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    Adam wrote:
    Then, the problem may be the newer laptop has hardware that
    is not supported by the existing Ubuntu version in use.  So,
    I will install a newer version of Ubuntu then.

    Not supported? I get an approx date of 2013 for your laptop. I have a
    Thinkpad L530 of basically the same era running 20.04 LTS no problem...

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Jonathan N. Little@lws4art@gmail.com to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Sat Mar 20 09:12:28 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    Dirk T. Verbeek wrote:
    Op 20-03-2021 om 03:02 schreef Adam:
    On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
    I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear


    Thanks, is it normal for the cooling fan to kick into
    high gear after starting the laptop for only minutes (~15) ?
    I've been shutting down the laptop for fear that
    it'll completely fail before I get all data from it.

    I've been powering it on only when absolutely necessary.

    Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.

    Interesting review of N550JV in the bad column "interior gets very hot
    when pushed; " so I would hazard a guess that it is the fan and that the thermal design for that laptop is not very good. I had a Del Latitude
    D820 with nVidia GPU that was a good lap-toaster because Dell only put
    one fan in that model when it really needed two.

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Adam@adam@no_thanks.com to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Sat Mar 20 06:39:31 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    On 03/20/2021 06:12 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
    Dirk T. Verbeek wrote:
    Op 20-03-2021 om 03:02 schreef Adam:
    On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
    I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear


    Thanks, is it normal for the cooling fan to kick into
    high gear after starting the laptop for only minutes (~15) ?
    I've been shutting down the laptop for fear that
    it'll completely fail before I get all data from it.

    I've been powering it on only when absolutely necessary.

    Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.

    Interesting review of N550JV in the bad column "interior gets very hot
    when pushed; " so I would hazard a guess that it is the fan and that the thermal design for that laptop is not very good. I had a Del Latitude
    D820 with nVidia GPU that was a good lap-toaster because Dell only put
    one fan in that model when it really needed two.


    Good thing the N550JX laptop has an Intel i7, which automatically shuts OFF if it gets too hot.
    Hope I'm right about this. The laptop has not shut itself off yet.

    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Paul@nospam@needed.invalid to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Sat Mar 20 10:16:30 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    Adam wrote:
    On 03/20/2021 06:12 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
    Dirk T. Verbeek wrote:
    Op 20-03-2021 om 03:02 schreef Adam:
    On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
    I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear


    Thanks, is it normal for the cooling fan to kick into
    high gear after starting the laptop for only minutes (~15) ?
    I've been shutting down the laptop for fear that
    it'll completely fail before I get all data from it.

    I've been powering it on only when absolutely necessary.

    Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.

    Interesting review of N550JV in the bad column "interior gets very hot
    when pushed; " so I would hazard a guess that it is the fan and that the
    thermal design for that laptop is not very good. I had a Del Latitude
    D820 with nVidia GPU that was a good lap-toaster because Dell only put
    one fan in that model when it really needed two.


    Good thing the N550JX laptop has an Intel i7, which automatically shuts
    OFF if it gets too hot.
    Hope I'm right about this. The laptop has not shut itself off yet.


    That one has two fans.

    http://www.partsinthebox.com/servers-pc-parts/laptop-parts/laptop-motherboard/motherboard-for-asus-n550jx-intel-i7-4720hq-60nb0860-mb1b10.html

    CPU: Intel Core i7-4720HQ
    GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 950M (2GB DDR3)

    The Intel processor has a GPU inside it.

    Processor Graphics

    Processor Graphics Intel HD Graphics 4600

    So that would be a Bumblebee setup, when the
    software loads.

    The Intel GPU drives the LVDS cable
    to the panel. When playing games, the NVidia GPU
    copies the frame buffer somewhere, where the
    4600 can play back the scan lines to the LVDS cable.
    That might use 1GB/sec of main memory bandwidth,
    for a shared memory that both the 950M and 4600
    can see from a DMA perspective. The 2GB of private
    memory the NVidia uses, is much faster than that.
    So is the system memory. Faster.

    Paul
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Adam@adam@no_thanks.com to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Sat Mar 20 09:26:53 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    On 03/20/2021 07:16 AM, Paul wrote:
    Adam wrote:
    On 03/20/2021 06:12 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
    Dirk T. Verbeek wrote:
    Op 20-03-2021 om 03:02 schreef Adam:
    On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
    I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear


    Thanks, is it normal for the cooling fan to kick into
    high gear after starting the laptop for only minutes (~15) ?
    I've been shutting down the laptop for fear that
    it'll completely fail before I get all data from it.

    I've been powering it on only when absolutely necessary.

    Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.

    Interesting review of N550JV in the bad column "interior gets very hot
    when pushed; " so I would hazard a guess that it is the fan and that the >>> thermal design for that laptop is not very good. I had a Del Latitude
    D820 with nVidia GPU that was a good lap-toaster because Dell only put
    one fan in that model when it really needed two.


    Good thing the N550JX laptop has an Intel i7, which automatically shuts OFF if it gets too hot.
    Hope I'm right about this. The laptop has not shut itself off yet.


    That one has two fans.

    http://www.partsinthebox.com/servers-pc-parts/laptop-parts/laptop-motherboard/motherboard-for-asus-n550jx-intel-i7-4720hq-60nb0860-mb1b10.html

    CPU: Intel Core i7-4720HQ
    GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 950M (2GB DDR3)

    The Intel processor has a GPU inside it.

    Processor Graphics

    Processor Graphics Intel HD Graphics 4600

    So that would be a Bumblebee setup, when the
    software loads.

    The Intel GPU drives the LVDS cable
    to the panel. When playing games, the NVidia GPU
    copies the frame buffer somewhere, where the
    4600 can play back the scan lines to the LVDS cable.
    That might use 1GB/sec of main memory bandwidth,
    for a shared memory that both the 950M and 4600
    can see from a DMA perspective. The 2GB of private
    memory the NVidia uses, is much faster than that.
    So is the system memory. Faster.

    Paul

    Oh no, sorry, I goofed !! Getting my laptops all mixed up. OMG !!

    This is the noisy old laptop...

    ASUS N61JQ-X1 16-Inch Laptop (1.6 GHz Intel Core i7-720QM Quad-Core Processor) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00352LQZS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Paul@nospam@needed.invalid to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Sat Mar 20 13:38:55 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    Adam wrote:
    On 03/20/2021 07:16 AM, Paul wrote:
    Adam wrote:
    On 03/20/2021 06:12 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
    Dirk T. Verbeek wrote:
    Op 20-03-2021 om 03:02 schreef Adam:
    On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
    I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear


    Thanks, is it normal for the cooling fan to kick into
    high gear after starting the laptop for only minutes (~15) ?
    I've been shutting down the laptop for fear that
    it'll completely fail before I get all data from it.

    I've been powering it on only when absolutely necessary.

    Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.

    Interesting review of N550JV in the bad column "interior gets very hot >>>> when pushed; " so I would hazard a guess that it is the fan and that
    the
    thermal design for that laptop is not very good. I had a Del Latitude
    D820 with nVidia GPU that was a good lap-toaster because Dell only put >>>> one fan in that model when it really needed two.


    Good thing the N550JX laptop has an Intel i7, which automatically
    shuts OFF if it gets too hot.
    Hope I'm right about this. The laptop has not shut itself off yet.


    That one has two fans.

    http://www.partsinthebox.com/servers-pc-parts/laptop-parts/laptop-motherboard/motherboard-for-asus-n550jx-intel-i7-4720hq-60nb0860-mb1b10.html


    CPU: Intel Core i7-4720HQ
    GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 950M (2GB DDR3)

    The Intel processor has a GPU inside it.

    Processor Graphics

    Processor Graphics Intel HD Graphics 4600

    So that would be a Bumblebee setup, when the
    software loads.

    The Intel GPU drives the LVDS cable
    to the panel. When playing games, the NVidia GPU
    copies the frame buffer somewhere, where the
    4600 can play back the scan lines to the LVDS cable.
    That might use 1GB/sec of main memory bandwidth,
    for a shared memory that both the 950M and 4600
    can see from a DMA perspective. The 2GB of private
    memory the NVidia uses, is much faster than that.
    So is the system memory. Faster.

    Paul

    Oh no, sorry, I goofed !! Getting my laptops all mixed up. OMG !!

    This is the noisy old laptop...

    ASUS N61JQ-X1 16-Inch Laptop (1.6 GHz Intel Core i7-720QM Quad-Core Processor) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00352LQZS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    That's a 26W GPU and a 45W CPU.

    71W for one fan ? Might be a bit noisy.

    *******

    https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/mobility-radeon-hd-5730.c1649

    "Features 400 shading units, 20 texture mapping units, and 8 ROPs.
    ATI has paired 1GB GDDR3 memory with the Mobility Radeon HD 5730,
    which are connected using a 128-bit memory interface. The GPU is
    operating at a frequency of 650 MHz, memory is running at 800 MHz.

    This device has no display connectivity, as it is not designed to
    have monitors connected to it. Rather it is intended for use in
    laptop/notebooks and will use the output of the host mobile device."

    The HM55 has FDI in and LVDS out, and can drive the panel. But
    the CPU has no GPU in it, and it's a mystery how the HM55 is getting
    an FDI bus connection. There must be some option in the CPU for
    an FDI signal to take the place of the missing one. The TechPowerup
    description doesn't mention the 5730 having a means to solve
    the problem.

    Paul
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Adam@adam@no_thanks.com to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Sat Mar 20 10:51:38 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    On 03/20/2021 03:24 AM, Harold Stevens wrote:
    In <6055c84d$0$27927$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> Dirk T. Verbeek:

    On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
    I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear

    [Snip...]

    Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.

    Yes, and top in a terminal, to see what's chewing up CPU time.

    wyrd@limbo:~$ top
    top - 05:21:32 up 2:01, 2 users, load average: 0.12, 0.07, 0.06
    Tasks: 207 total, 2 running, 145 sleeping, 0 stopped, 1 zombie
    %Cpu(s): 0.4 us, 0.3 sy, 0.0 ni, 99.1 id, 0.2 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.0 si, 0.0 st
    KiB Mem : 16404820 total, 10303384 free, 1045212 used, 5056224 buff/cache KiB Swap: 2097148 total, 2097148 free, 0 used. 14984564 avail Mem

    PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND
    1374 root 20 0 698308 74020 43276 S 1.0 0.5 2:03.63 Xorg
    987 nut 20 0 21996 368 0 S 0.3 0.0 0:03.88 usbhid-ups
    6027 root 20 0 0 0 0 I 0.3 0.0 0:00.05 kworker/0:+
    1 root 20 0 225480 9144 6680 S 0.0 0.1 0:01.78 systemd
    2 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 kthreadd
    3 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 rcu_gp
    4 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 rcu_par_gp
    6 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 kworker/0:+
    9 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 mm_percpu_+
    10 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.14 ksoftirqd/0
    11 root 20 0 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:03.31 rcu_sched
    12 root rt 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.02 migration/0
    13 root -51 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 idle_injec+
    14 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 cpuhp/0
    15 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 cpuhp/1
    16 root -51 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 idle_injec+
    17 root rt 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.14 migration/1
    wyrd@limbo:~$


    I was able to run "top" but copying the output was tricky because of the way top updates.
    Anyways, I was able to quickly "Select All" then copy several times the output to a text file (top.txt).
    But, I was not able to copy the top.txt file to my USB thumb drive.
    Something seems to be wrong with file transfer.

    I had copied a folder called "Taxes-Current" the other day after the noise appeared.

    But, contents looks like garbage...

    https://i.postimg.cc/8zrg2S1h/Taxes-Current.png

    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Adam@adam@no_thanks.com to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Sat Mar 20 11:05:02 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    On 03/20/2021 10:51 AM, Adam wrote:
    On 03/20/2021 03:24 AM, Harold Stevens wrote:
    In <6055c84d$0$27927$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> Dirk T. Verbeek:

    On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
    I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear

    [Snip...]

    Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.

    Yes, and top in a terminal, to see what's chewing up CPU time.

    wyrd@limbo:~$ top
    top - 05:21:32 up 2:01, 2 users, load average: 0.12, 0.07, 0.06
    Tasks: 207 total, 2 running, 145 sleeping, 0 stopped, 1 zombie
    %Cpu(s): 0.4 us, 0.3 sy, 0.0 ni, 99.1 id, 0.2 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.0 si, 0.0 st
    KiB Mem : 16404820 total, 10303384 free, 1045212 used, 5056224 buff/cache >> KiB Swap: 2097148 total, 2097148 free, 0 used. 14984564 avail Mem >>
    PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND >> 1374 root 20 0 698308 74020 43276 S 1.0 0.5 2:03.63 Xorg
    987 nut 20 0 21996 368 0 S 0.3 0.0 0:03.88 usbhid-ups
    6027 root 20 0 0 0 0 I 0.3 0.0 0:00.05 kworker/0:+
    1 root 20 0 225480 9144 6680 S 0.0 0.1 0:01.78 systemd >> 2 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 kthreadd >> 3 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 rcu_gp >> 4 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 rcu_par_gp
    6 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 kworker/0:+
    9 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 mm_percpu_+
    10 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.14 ksoftirqd/0
    11 root 20 0 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:03.31 rcu_sched
    12 root rt 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.02 migration/0
    13 root -51 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 idle_injec+
    14 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 cpuhp/0 >> 15 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 cpuhp/1 >> 16 root -51 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 idle_injec+
    17 root rt 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.14 migration/1
    wyrd@limbo:~$


    I was able to run "top" but copying the output was tricky because of the way top updates.
    Anyways, I was able to quickly "Select All" then copy several times the output to a text file (top.txt).
    But, I was not able to copy the top.txt file to my USB thumb drive.
    Something seems to be wrong with file transfer.

    I had copied a folder called "Taxes-Current" the other day after the noise appeared.

    But, contents looks like garbage...

    https://i.postimg.cc/8zrg2S1h/Taxes-Current.png


    The message dialog...

    https://i.postimg.cc/3JkgQLzX/This-location-could-not-be-displayed.png

    Looks like something is wrong with the motherboard ?
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Adam@adam@no_thanks.com to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Sat Mar 20 11:28:01 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    On 03/20/2021 10:38 AM, Paul wrote:
    Adam wrote:
    On 03/20/2021 07:16 AM, Paul wrote:
    Adam wrote:
    On 03/20/2021 06:12 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
    Dirk T. Verbeek wrote:
    Op 20-03-2021 om 03:02 schreef Adam:
    On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
    I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear


    Thanks, is it normal for the cooling fan to kick into
    high gear after starting the laptop for only minutes (~15) ?
    I've been shutting down the laptop for fear that
    it'll completely fail before I get all data from it.

    I've been powering it on only when absolutely necessary.

    Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.

    Interesting review of N550JV in the bad column "interior gets very hot >>>>> when pushed; " so I would hazard a guess that it is the fan and that the >>>>> thermal design for that laptop is not very good. I had a Del Latitude >>>>> D820 with nVidia GPU that was a good lap-toaster because Dell only put >>>>> one fan in that model when it really needed two.


    Good thing the N550JX laptop has an Intel i7, which automatically shuts OFF if it gets too hot.
    Hope I'm right about this. The laptop has not shut itself off yet.


    That one has two fans.

    http://www.partsinthebox.com/servers-pc-parts/laptop-parts/laptop-motherboard/motherboard-for-asus-n550jx-intel-i7-4720hq-60nb0860-mb1b10.html

    CPU: Intel Core i7-4720HQ
    GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 950M (2GB DDR3)

    The Intel processor has a GPU inside it.

    Processor Graphics

    Processor Graphics Intel HD Graphics 4600

    So that would be a Bumblebee setup, when the
    software loads.

    The Intel GPU drives the LVDS cable
    to the panel. When playing games, the NVidia GPU
    copies the frame buffer somewhere, where the
    4600 can play back the scan lines to the LVDS cable.
    That might use 1GB/sec of main memory bandwidth,
    for a shared memory that both the 950M and 4600
    can see from a DMA perspective. The 2GB of private
    memory the NVidia uses, is much faster than that.
    So is the system memory. Faster.

    Paul

    Oh no, sorry, I goofed !! Getting my laptops all mixed up. OMG !!

    This is the noisy old laptop...

    ASUS N61JQ-X1 16-Inch Laptop (1.6 GHz Intel Core i7-720QM Quad-Core Processor)
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00352LQZS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    That's a 26W GPU and a 45W CPU.

    71W for one fan ? Might be a bit noisy.


    It's been running many years without the noise that I now hear.


    *******

    https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/mobility-radeon-hd-5730.c1649

    "Features 400 shading units, 20 texture mapping units, and 8 ROPs.
    ATI has paired 1GB GDDR3 memory with the Mobility Radeon HD 5730,
    which are connected using a 128-bit memory interface. The GPU is
    operating at a frequency of 650 MHz, memory is running at 800 MHz.

    This device has no display connectivity, as it is not designed to
    have monitors connected to it. Rather it is intended for use in
    laptop/notebooks and will use the output of the host mobile device."

    The HM55 has FDI in and LVDS out, and can drive the panel. But
    the CPU has no GPU in it, and it's a mystery how the HM55 is getting
    an FDI bus connection. There must be some option in the CPU for
    an FDI signal to take the place of the missing one. The TechPowerup description doesn't mention the 5730 having a means to solve
    the problem.

    Paul

    Yes, the ATI Mobility Radeon GPU is separate from the Intel i7-720QM CPU.

    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Adam@adam@no_thanks.com to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Sat Mar 20 12:19:52 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    On 03/20/2021 11:28 AM, Adam wrote:
    On 03/20/2021 10:38 AM, Paul wrote:
    Adam wrote:
    On 03/20/2021 07:16 AM, Paul wrote:
    Adam wrote:
    On 03/20/2021 06:12 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
    Dirk T. Verbeek wrote:
    Op 20-03-2021 om 03:02 schreef Adam:
    On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
    I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear >>>>>>>>>

    Thanks, is it normal for the cooling fan to kick into
    high gear after starting the laptop for only minutes (~15) ?
    I've been shutting down the laptop for fear that
    it'll completely fail before I get all data from it.

    I've been powering it on only when absolutely necessary.

    Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.

    Interesting review of N550JV in the bad column "interior gets very hot >>>>>> when pushed; " so I would hazard a guess that it is the fan and that the >>>>>> thermal design for that laptop is not very good. I had a Del Latitude >>>>>> D820 with nVidia GPU that was a good lap-toaster because Dell only put >>>>>> one fan in that model when it really needed two.


    Good thing the N550JX laptop has an Intel i7, which automatically shuts OFF if it gets too hot.
    Hope I'm right about this. The laptop has not shut itself off yet.


    That one has two fans.

    http://www.partsinthebox.com/servers-pc-parts/laptop-parts/laptop-motherboard/motherboard-for-asus-n550jx-intel-i7-4720hq-60nb0860-mb1b10.html

    CPU: Intel Core i7-4720HQ
    GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 950M (2GB DDR3)

    The Intel processor has a GPU inside it.

    Processor Graphics

    Processor Graphics Intel HD Graphics 4600

    So that would be a Bumblebee setup, when the
    software loads.

    The Intel GPU drives the LVDS cable
    to the panel. When playing games, the NVidia GPU
    copies the frame buffer somewhere, where the
    4600 can play back the scan lines to the LVDS cable.
    That might use 1GB/sec of main memory bandwidth,
    for a shared memory that both the 950M and 4600
    can see from a DMA perspective. The 2GB of private
    memory the NVidia uses, is much faster than that.
    So is the system memory. Faster.

    Paul

    Oh no, sorry, I goofed !! Getting my laptops all mixed up. OMG !!

    This is the noisy old laptop...

    ASUS N61JQ-X1 16-Inch Laptop (1.6 GHz Intel Core i7-720QM Quad-Core Processor)
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00352LQZS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    That's a 26W GPU and a 45W CPU.

    71W for one fan ? Might be a bit noisy.


    It's been running many years without the noise that I now hear.


    *******

    https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/mobility-radeon-hd-5730.c1649

    "Features 400 shading units, 20 texture mapping units, and 8 ROPs.
    ATI has paired 1GB GDDR3 memory with the Mobility Radeon HD 5730,
    which are connected using a 128-bit memory interface. The GPU is
    operating at a frequency of 650 MHz, memory is running at 800 MHz.

    This device has no display connectivity, as it is not designed to
    have monitors connected to it. Rather it is intended for use in
    laptop/notebooks and will use the output of the host mobile device."

    The HM55 has FDI in and LVDS out, and can drive the panel. But
    the CPU has no GPU in it, and it's a mystery how the HM55 is getting
    an FDI bus connection. There must be some option in the CPU for
    an FDI signal to take the place of the missing one. The TechPowerup
    description doesn't mention the 5730 having a means to solve
    the problem.

    Paul

    Yes, the ATI Mobility Radeon GPU is separate from the Intel i7-720QM CPU.


    The noise I hear does not sound normal (like a fan, even in high gear).
    The noise comes on even when I'm in the BIOS.

    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Wes Newell@wesnewell46@gmail.com to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Sat Mar 20 17:34:03 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    On 3/20/21 2:19 PM, Adam wrote:
    The noise I hear does not sound normal (like a fan, even in high gear).
    The noise comes on even when I'm in the BIOS.

    May be dry bearings/sleeve of fan. peel off fan cover and put in a drop
    of light weight fine oil. May also be vibration of loose fan mounts.

    --
    http://wesnewell.ddns.net
    https://github.com/wesnewell/Functionality
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Paul@nospam@needed.invalid to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Sun Mar 21 02:18:49 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    Adam wrote:
    On 03/20/2021 10:51 AM, Adam wrote:
    On 03/20/2021 03:24 AM, Harold Stevens wrote:
    In <6055c84d$0$27927$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> Dirk T. Verbeek:

    On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
    I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear

    [Snip...]

    Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.

    Yes, and top in a terminal, to see what's chewing up CPU time.

    wyrd@limbo:~$ top
    top - 05:21:32 up 2:01, 2 users, load average: 0.12, 0.07, 0.06
    Tasks: 207 total, 2 running, 145 sleeping, 0 stopped, 1 zombie
    %Cpu(s): 0.4 us, 0.3 sy, 0.0 ni, 99.1 id, 0.2 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.0
    si, 0.0 st
    KiB Mem : 16404820 total, 10303384 free, 1045212 used, 5056224
    buff/cache
    KiB Swap: 2097148 total, 2097148 free, 0 used. 14984564
    avail Mem

    PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+
    COMMAND
    1374 root 20 0 698308 74020 43276 S 1.0 0.5 2:03.63 Xorg >>> 987 nut 20 0 21996 368 0 S 0.3 0.0 0:03.88
    usbhid-ups
    6027 root 20 0 0 0 0 I 0.3 0.0 0:00.05
    kworker/0:+
    1 root 20 0 225480 9144 6680 S 0.0 0.1 0:01.78
    systemd
    2 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00
    kthreadd
    3 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00
    rcu_gp
    4 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00
    rcu_par_gp
    6 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00
    kworker/0:+
    9 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00
    mm_percpu_+
    10 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.14
    ksoftirqd/0
    11 root 20 0 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:03.31
    rcu_sched
    12 root rt 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.02
    migration/0
    13 root -51 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00
    idle_injec+
    14 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00
    cpuhp/0
    15 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00
    cpuhp/1
    16 root -51 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00
    idle_injec+
    17 root rt 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.14
    migration/1
    wyrd@limbo:~$


    I was able to run "top" but copying the output was tricky because of
    the way top updates.
    Anyways, I was able to quickly "Select All" then copy several times
    the output to a text file (top.txt).
    But, I was not able to copy the top.txt file to my USB thumb drive.
    Something seems to be wrong with file transfer.

    I had copied a folder called "Taxes-Current" the other day after the
    noise appeared.

    But, contents looks like garbage...

    https://i.postimg.cc/8zrg2S1h/Taxes-Current.png


    The message dialog...

    https://i.postimg.cc/3JkgQLzX/This-location-could-not-be-displayed.png

    Looks like something is wrong with the motherboard ?

    Maybe the controller in the Rally2 or the Flash Chip in the Rally2.
    I have a Rally 2 here as well, and mine is 8GB. Both the dates and
    file sizes are corrupt in your picture.

    I would guess, just a bad USB stick.

    Move the stick to a second, known good machine, and see if it
    still displays as bad.

    Read and write test the Rally 2, on the known-good computer.

    Then stick the Rally2 back in the defective machine and see
    if bytes are still getting corrupted.

    If the 5V rail was lower in voltage than normal, that
    might cause flash corruption on reads. Since the Rally2 has
    that nice orange LED, compare the brilliance of the orange LED
    on the known-good computer, versus on the HM55 based machine.

    If the HM55 based machine has three USB ports, they might not
    all be defective. A single power monitoring chip, runs two
    USB ports. A laptop typically has three ports, so one of the
    ports may work better than the other two.

    Paul
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Adam@adam@no_thanks.com to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Sun Mar 21 09:35:19 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    On 03/20/2021 11:18 PM, Paul wrote:
    Adam wrote:
    On 03/20/2021 10:51 AM, Adam wrote:
    On 03/20/2021 03:24 AM, Harold Stevens wrote:
    In <6055c84d$0$27927$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> Dirk T. Verbeek:

    On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
    I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear

    [Snip...]

    Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.

    Yes, and top in a terminal, to see what's chewing up CPU time.

    wyrd@limbo:~$ top
    top - 05:21:32 up 2:01, 2 users, load average: 0.12, 0.07, 0.06
    Tasks: 207 total, 2 running, 145 sleeping, 0 stopped, 1 zombie
    %Cpu(s): 0.4 us, 0.3 sy, 0.0 ni, 99.1 id, 0.2 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.0 si, 0.0 st
    KiB Mem : 16404820 total, 10303384 free, 1045212 used, 5056224 buff/cache
    KiB Swap: 2097148 total, 2097148 free, 0 used. 14984564 avail Mem >>>>
    PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND
    1374 root 20 0 698308 74020 43276 S 1.0 0.5 2:03.63 Xorg >>>> 987 nut 20 0 21996 368 0 S 0.3 0.0 0:03.88 usbhid-ups
    6027 root 20 0 0 0 0 I 0.3 0.0 0:00.05 kworker/0:+
    1 root 20 0 225480 9144 6680 S 0.0 0.1 0:01.78 systemd
    2 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 kthreadd
    3 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 rcu_gp >>>> 4 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 rcu_par_gp
    6 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 kworker/0:+
    9 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 mm_percpu_+
    10 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.14 ksoftirqd/0
    11 root 20 0 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:03.31 rcu_sched
    12 root rt 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.02 migration/0
    13 root -51 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 idle_injec+
    14 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 cpuhp/0
    15 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 cpuhp/1
    16 root -51 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 idle_injec+
    17 root rt 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.14 migration/1
    wyrd@limbo:~$


    I was able to run "top" but copying the output was tricky because of the way top updates.
    Anyways, I was able to quickly "Select All" then copy several times the output to a text file (top.txt).
    But, I was not able to copy the top.txt file to my USB thumb drive.
    Something seems to be wrong with file transfer.

    I had copied a folder called "Taxes-Current" the other day after the noise appeared.

    But, contents looks like garbage...

    https://i.postimg.cc/8zrg2S1h/Taxes-Current.png


    The message dialog...

    https://i.postimg.cc/3JkgQLzX/This-location-could-not-be-displayed.png

    Looks like something is wrong with the motherboard ?

    Maybe the controller in the Rally2 or the Flash Chip in the Rally2.
    I have a Rally 2 here as well, and mine is 8GB. Both the dates and
    file sizes are corrupt in your picture.

    I would guess, just a bad USB stick.


    You may be on to something.


    Move the stick to a second, known good machine, and see if it
    still displays as bad.


    Pics were all taken from a known good laptop. I haven't been able to
    get anything out of the noisy bad laptop.


    Read and write test the Rally 2, on the known-good computer.


    I just tried to copy another folder (from the known-good laptop) to the Rally2 USB stick...

    https://i.postimg.cc/qqZn527k/Error-while-copying-folder.png

    The USB stick has become read-only. I can still read old files that
    were written before the USB stick lost write capability.

    GParted shows a key next to the partition... https://i.postimg.cc/XJt35BzZ/GParted-shows-Rally2-Locked.png

    Strange !! How'd that happen ? Is that why the Rally2 USB stick is now read-only ?


    Then stick the Rally2 back in the defective machine and see
    if bytes are still getting corrupted.

    If the 5V rail was lower in voltage than normal, that
    might cause flash corruption on reads. Since the Rally2 has
    that nice orange LED, compare the brilliance of the orange LED
    on the known-good computer, versus on the HM55 based machine.

    If the HM55 based machine has three USB ports, they might not
    all be defective. A single power monitoring chip, runs two
    USB ports. A laptop typically has three ports, so one of the
    ports may work better than the other two.

    Paul

    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Jonathan N. Little@lws4art@gmail.com to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Sun Mar 21 13:27:24 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    Adam wrote:

    The USB stick has become read-only. I can still read old files that
    were written before the USB stick lost write capability.

    Some USB sticks become read-only when failing to protect existing data.
    Sandisk is on brand that has such feature. My guess is your Rally2 USB
    stick "pining for the fjords" like an infamous parrot.

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Adam@adam@no_thanks.com to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Sun Mar 21 14:43:29 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    On 03/21/2021 10:27 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
    Adam wrote:

    The USB stick has become read-only. I can still read old files that
    were written before the USB stick lost write capability.useful info

    Some USB sticks become read-only when failing to protect existing data. Sandisk is on brand that has such feature. My guess is your Rally2 USB
    stick "pining for the fjords" like an infamous parrot.


    Guess it's about time since it was purchased before the following May 2012 purchase...

    https://i.postimg.cc/hPFfhnGG/OCZ-Mod-XStream-Pro-600-W-Modular-High-Performance-Power-Supply.png

    First OCZ product I purchased was...

    OCZ Rally2 16GB USB 2.0 Flash Drive Model OCZUSBR2DC-16GB https://www.newegg.com/model-oczusbr2dc-16gb/p/N82E16820227272

    but I can't locate purchase order for date info.


    Hmmm...wonder if I could burn "Taxes - Current" folder to a data disc.
    Don't want to risk losing another USB stick just in case.

    Cloned the bad USB stick. How to unlock ? Searched but no luck.
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Jonathan N. Little@lws4art@gmail.com to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Sun Mar 21 18:33:30 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    Adam wrote:
    On 03/21/2021 10:27 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
    Adam wrote:

    The USB stick has become read-only. I can still read old files that
    were written before the USB stick lost write capability.useful info

    Some USB sticks become read-only when failing to protect existing data.
    Sandisk is on brand that has such feature. My guess is your Rally2 USB
    stick "pining for the fjords" like an infamous parrot.


    Guess it's about time since it was purchased before the following May
    2012 purchase...

    https://i.postimg.cc/hPFfhnGG/OCZ-Mod-XStream-Pro-600-W-Modular-High-Performance-Power-Supply.png


    First OCZ product I purchased was...

    OCZ Rally2 16GB USB 2.0 Flash Drive Model OCZUSBR2DC-16GB https://www.newegg.com/model-oczusbr2dc-16gb/p/N82E16820227272

    but I can't locate purchase order for date info.


    Hmmm...wonder if I could burn "Taxes - Current" folder to a data disc.
    Don't want to risk losing another USB stick just in case.

    Cloned the bad USB stick. How to unlock ? Searched but no luck.

    It is it the safety feature of the USB stick as I described then you
    cannot. Its trigger by the flashes controller. Get a new thumbdrive can
    copy what you can before it becomes total dead.

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Adam@adam@no_thanks.com to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Sun Mar 21 15:46:12 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    On 03/21/2021 02:43 PM, Adam wrote:
    On 03/21/2021 10:27 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
    Adam wrote:

    The USB stick has become read-only. I can still read old files that
    were written before the USB stick lost write capability.useful info

    Some USB sticks become read-only when failing to protect existing data.
    Sandisk is on brand that has such feature. My guess is your Rally2 USB
    stick "pining for the fjords" like an infamous parrot.


    Guess it's about time since it was purchased before the following May 2012 purchase...

    https://i.postimg.cc/hPFfhnGG/OCZ-Mod-XStream-Pro-600-W-Modular-High-Performance-Power-Supply.png

    First OCZ product I purchased was...

    OCZ Rally2 16GB USB 2.0 Flash Drive Model OCZUSBR2DC-16GB https://www.newegg.com/model-oczusbr2dc-16gb/p/N82E16820227272

    but I can't locate purchase order for date info.


    Hmmm...wonder if I could burn "Taxes - Current" folder to a data disc.
    Don't want to risk losing another USB stick just in case.

    Cloned the bad USB stick. How to unlock ? Searched but no luck.

    GParted has a little key icon on my Ubuntu partition so I can not resize it https://askubuntu.com/questions/473478/gparted-has-a-little-key-icon-on-my-ubuntu-partition-so-i-can-not-resize-it

    For USB stick, selecting "Unmount" doesn't work. GParted crashes.

    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Adam@adam@no_thanks.com to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Sun Mar 21 15:50:41 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    On 03/21/2021 03:33 PM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
    Adam wrote:
    On 03/21/2021 10:27 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
    Adam wrote:

    The USB stick has become read-only. I can still read old files that
    were written before the USB stick lost write capability.useful info

    Some USB sticks become read-only when failing to protect existing data.
    Sandisk is on brand that has such feature. My guess is your Rally2 USB
    stick "pining for the fjords" like an infamous parrot.


    Guess it's about time since it was purchased before the following May
    2012 purchase...

    https://i.postimg.cc/hPFfhnGG/OCZ-Mod-XStream-Pro-600-W-Modular-High-Performance-Power-Supply.png


    First OCZ product I purchased was...

    OCZ Rally2 16GB USB 2.0 Flash Drive Model OCZUSBR2DC-16GB
    https://www.newegg.com/model-oczusbr2dc-16gb/p/N82E16820227272

    but I can't locate purchase order for date info.


    Hmmm...wonder if I could burn "Taxes - Current" folder to a data disc.
    Don't want to risk losing another USB stick just in case.

    Cloned the bad USB stick. How to unlock ? Searched but no luck.

    It is it the safety feature of the USB stick as I described then you
    cannot. Its trigger by the flashes controller. Get a new thumbdrive can
    copy what you can before it becomes total dead.


    Yes, I cloned it but the clone keeps the lock. So, ALL files are read-only even after cloning ?
    And, there's no way out ? Not good.

    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Paul@nospam@needed.invalid to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Sun Mar 21 19:36:30 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    Adam wrote:
    On 03/21/2021 03:33 PM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
    Adam wrote:
    On 03/21/2021 10:27 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
    Adam wrote:

    The USB stick has become read-only. I can still read old files that >>>>> were written before the USB stick lost write capability.useful info

    Some USB sticks become read-only when failing to protect existing data. >>>> Sandisk is on brand that has such feature. My guess is your Rally2 USB >>>> stick "pining for the fjords" like an infamous parrot.


    Guess it's about time since it was purchased before the following May
    2012 purchase...

    https://i.postimg.cc/hPFfhnGG/OCZ-Mod-XStream-Pro-600-W-Modular-High-Performance-Power-Supply.png



    First OCZ product I purchased was...

    OCZ Rally2 16GB USB 2.0 Flash Drive Model OCZUSBR2DC-16GB
    https://www.newegg.com/model-oczusbr2dc-16gb/p/N82E16820227272

    but I can't locate purchase order for date info.


    Hmmm...wonder if I could burn "Taxes - Current" folder to a data disc.
    Don't want to risk losing another USB stick just in case.

    Cloned the bad USB stick. How to unlock ? Searched but no luck.

    It is it the safety feature of the USB stick as I described then you
    cannot. Its trigger by the flashes controller. Get a new thumbdrive can
    copy what you can before it becomes total dead.


    Yes, I cloned it but the clone keeps the lock. So, ALL files are
    read-only even after cloning ?
    And, there's no way out ? Not good.


    What does /etc/mtab say for the mount ?
    Is it "... -o ro" for read-only ?
    Maybe it needs "sudo remount -o rw" type treatment.

    I thought a topic like this came up recently,
    something that was mounting read-only.

    Paul
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Adam@adam@no_thanks.com to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Sun Mar 21 17:43:29 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    On 03/21/2021 04:36 PM, Paul wrote:
    Adam wrote:
    On 03/21/2021 03:33 PM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
    Adam wrote:
    On 03/21/2021 10:27 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
    Adam wrote:

    The USB stick has become read-only. I can still read old files that >>>>>> were written before the USB stick lost write capability.useful info >>>>>
    Some USB sticks become read-only when failing to protect existing data. >>>>> Sandisk is on brand that has such feature. My guess is your Rally2 USB >>>>> stick "pining for the fjords" like an infamous parrot.


    Guess it's about time since it was purchased before the following May
    2012 purchase...

    https://i.postimg.cc/hPFfhnGG/OCZ-Mod-XStream-Pro-600-W-Modular-High-Performance-Power-Supply.png


    First OCZ product I purchased was...

    OCZ Rally2 16GB USB 2.0 Flash Drive Model OCZUSBR2DC-16GB
    https://www.newegg.com/model-oczusbr2dc-16gb/p/N82E16820227272

    but I can't locate purchase order for date info.


    Hmmm...wonder if I could burn "Taxes - Current" folder to a data disc. >>>> Don't want to risk losing another USB stick just in case.

    Cloned the bad USB stick. How to unlock ? Searched but no luck.

    It is it the safety feature of the USB stick as I described then you
    cannot. Its trigger by the flashes controller. Get a new thumbdrive can
    copy what you can before it becomes total dead.


    Yes, I cloned it but the clone keeps the lock. So, ALL files are read-only even after cloning ?
    And, there's no way out ? Not good.


    What does /etc/mtab say for the mount ?
    Is it "... -o ro" for read-only ?
    Maybe it needs "sudo remount -o rw" type treatment.

    I thought a topic like this came up recently,
    something that was mounting read-only.

    Paul

    Just the two (2) partitions for the USB stick clone...

    /dev/sda1 /media/ubuntu/RALLY2 vfat ro,nosuid,nodev,relatime,uid=999,gid=999,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=437,iocharset=iso8859-1,shortname=mixed,showexec,utf8,flush,errors=remount-ro 0 0
    /dev/sda2 /media/ubuntu/SPBLAZE64GB vfat rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,uid=999,gid=999,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=437,iocharset=iso8859-1,shortname=mixed,showexec,utf8,flush,errors=remount-ro 0 0

    Looks like the clone inherited the lock for the entire USB stick. I created /dev/sda2 partition thinking that I'll copy the files over but that inherits the lock too.


    Entire /etc/mtab... ==========================================================================================================================================================
    sysfs /sys sysfs rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0
    proc /proc proc rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0
    udev /dev devtmpfs rw,nosuid,relatime,size=3996656k,nr_inodes=999164,mode=755 0 0
    devpts /dev/pts devpts rw,nosuid,noexec,relatime,gid=5,mode=620,ptmxmode=000 0 0
    tmpfs /run tmpfs rw,nosuid,noexec,relatime,size=808860k,mode=755 0 0
    /dev/sdb4 /cdrom iso9660 ro,noatime 0 0
    /dev/loop0 /rofs squashfs ro,noatime 0 0
    /cow / overlay rw,relatime,lowerdir=//filesystem.squashfs,upperdir=/cow/upper,workdir=/cow/work 0 0
    securityfs /sys/kernel/security securityfs rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0 tmpfs /dev/shm tmpfs rw,nosuid,nodev 0 0
    tmpfs /run/lock tmpfs rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,size=5120k 0 0
    tmpfs /sys/fs/cgroup tmpfs ro,nosuid,nodev,noexec,mode=755 0 0
    cgroup /sys/fs/cgroup/systemd cgroup rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,xattr,release_agent=/lib/systemd/systemd-cgroups-agent,name=systemd,nsroot=/ 0 0
    pstore /sys/fs/pstore pstore rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0
    cgroup /sys/fs/cgroup/pids cgroup rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,pids,nsroot=/ 0 0
    cgroup /sys/fs/cgroup/cpuset cgroup rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,cpuset,nsroot=/ 0 0
    cgroup /sys/fs/cgroup/net_cls,net_prio cgroup rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,net_cls,net_prio,nsroot=/ 0 0
    cgroup /sys/fs/cgroup/memory cgroup rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,memory,nsroot=/ 0 0
    cgroup /sys/fs/cgroup/cpu,cpuacct cgroup rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,cpu,cpuacct,nsroot=/ 0 0
    cgroup /sys/fs/cgroup/freezer cgroup rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,freezer,nsroot=/ 0 0
    cgroup /sys/fs/cgroup/devices cgroup rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,devices,nsroot=/ 0 0
    cgroup /sys/fs/cgroup/hugetlb cgroup rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,hugetlb,nsroot=/ 0 0
    cgroup /sys/fs/cgroup/perf_event cgroup rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,perf_event,nsroot=/ 0 0
    cgroup /sys/fs/cgroup/blkio cgroup rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,blkio,nsroot=/ 0 0
    systemd-1 /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc autofs rw,relatime,fd=31,pgrp=1,timeout=0,minproto=5,maxproto=5,direct 0 0
    mqueue /dev/mqueue mqueue rw,relatime 0 0
    hugetlbfs /dev/hugepages hugetlbfs rw,relatime 0 0
    debugfs /sys/kernel/debug debugfs rw,relatime 0 0
    tracefs /sys/kernel/debug/tracing tracefs rw,relatime 0 0
    fusectl /sys/fs/fuse/connections fusectl rw,relatime 0 0
    tmpfs /tmp tmpfs rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime 0 0
    tmpfs /run/user/999 tmpfs rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,size=808860k,mode=700,uid=999,gid=999 0 0
    gvfsd-fuse /run/user/999/gvfs fuse.gvfsd-fuse rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=999,group_id=999 0 0
    /dev/sda2 /media/ubuntu/SPBLAZE64GB vfat rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,uid=999,gid=999,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=437,iocharset=iso8859-1,shortname=mixed,showexec,utf8,flush,errors=remount-ro 0 0
    /dev/sda1 /media/ubuntu/RALLY2 vfat ro,nosuid,nodev,relatime,uid=999,gid=999,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=437,iocharset=iso8859-1,shortname=mixed,showexec,utf8,flush,errors=remount-ro 0 0
    /dev/sdb5 /media/ubuntu/casper-rw ext4 rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,block_validity,delalloc,barrier,user_xattr,acl 0 0
    /dev/sdb1 /media/ubuntu/usbdata fuseblk rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=0,group_id=0,default_permissions,allow_other,blksize=4096 0 0
    ==========================================================================================================================================================

    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Paul@nospam@needed.invalid to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Mon Mar 22 03:33:30 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    Adam wrote:
    On 03/21/2021 04:36 PM, Paul wrote:

    What does /etc/mtab say for the mount ?
    Is it "... -o ro" for read-only ?
    Maybe it needs "sudo remount -o rw" type treatment.

    I thought a topic like this came up recently,
    something that was mounting read-only.

    Paul

    Just the two (2) partitions for the USB stick clone...

    /dev/sda1 /media/ubuntu/RALLY2 vfat ro,nosuid,nodev,relatime,uid=999,gid=999,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=437,iocharset=iso8859-1,shortname=mixed,showexec,utf8,flush,errors=remount-ro
    0 0
    /dev/sda2 /media/ubuntu/SPBLAZE64GB vfat rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,uid=999,gid=999,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=437,iocharset=iso8859-1,shortname=mixed,showexec,utf8,flush,errors=remount-ro
    0 0

    Looks like the clone inherited the lock for the entire USB stick. I
    created /dev/sda2 partition thinking that I'll copy the files over but
    that inherits the lock too.

    The documentation isn't very good in any case.

    Linux:
    blockdev, hdpart

    Windows
    diskpart

    *******

    https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/administration/windows-commands/attributes-volume


    diskpart

    select volume X
    attributes volume clear readonly
    attributes volume set readonly

    But part of what the Windows one is doing, is reflected
    in a registry entry, which means when the storage device
    is unplugged and moved, the attribute doesn't travel with it.
    That suggests diskpart won't be the repair tool to use.

    Linux has a couple. The stick is likely to need removal
    and reinsertion, for any successful change to be re-parsed
    and used by the OS.

    https://serverfault.com/questions/678008/ubuntu-remount-a-root-mount-thats-changed-to-ro-as-rw-without-rebooting

    hdparm -r0 /dev/sd???
    blockdev -setrw /dev/sd???

    These imply some sort of hardware level change. I can
    find comments that an attribute may apply to the whole
    device, so if you applied to /dev/sda1, it would apply
    to the whole device /dev/sda. Suggesting it is stored
    somewhere in the MBR.

    But the level of documentation always seems to be the
    same on utilities at this level

    1) Terse manpage - in other words "if you don't know what
    you're doing, we're not going to help you".
    2) No traceability - never a description of what hardware
    bits or bytes are being modified. Almost as if the
    developers don't know what they're doing.
    3) Polite request in bugtracker to fix fucking documentation,
    add note to manual page that OPs apply to MBR and not
    to partition, cheerfully ignored.

    This is almost as bad as the "dirty bit" on Windows file
    systems indicating they need to be checked. For the longest
    while (years!) you could have a volume that kept getting
    CHKDSK automatically at startup. An autochk (that always
    runs), sniffs the "dirty bit" and starts a CHKDSK, then
    CHKDSK doesn't clear the "dirty bit" and the charade starts
    all over again on next reboot. Eventually, somebody figured
    it out, because Linux started setting the dirty bit from gparted,
    telling Windows to take a bash at it, after a gparted run
    had made changes.

    I don't know where else to look for documentation on this.
    As long as I see reports from users that they're trying
    hdparm or blockdev at partition (/dev/sda1) or device (/dev/sda)
    level and things aren't improving, I'm left to wonder how
    this really works.

    There's the possibility of a slide switch, and perhaps
    USB config space can report the position of any such switch.
    But this behavior also smacks of something being written
    into an MBR (or a PBR). But without documentation, we'll
    never know. The Wikipedia entry for MBR doesn't have
    any storage feature which is an exact match, just a copy
    protect byte (not the same thing).

    We had a flash device at work, and it had some sort of
    per-page readonly status bit that could be set. The people
    doing bringup on my processor board, managed to "spray"
    the flash with read-only (the odd page was read-only,
    others remained read-write), but they managed to figure
    out how to restore full operation (somehow). That's just
    an example of documentation at work. We know the devices
    have some mechanism, because the "top" and "bottom" blocks
    had a special status and could be made "persistent" and
    readonly, so the bootstrap would never be lost. This
    allows recovery of the device and makes it non-brickable.

    Paul
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Adam@adam@no_thanks.com to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Mon Mar 22 11:26:12 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    On 03/22/2021 12:33 AM, Paul wrote:
    Adam wrote:
    On 03/21/2021 04:36 PM, Paul wrote:

    What does /etc/mtab say for the mount ?
    Is it "... -o ro" for read-only ?
    Maybe it needs "sudo remount -o rw" type treatment.

    I thought a topic like this came up recently,
    something that was mounting read-only.

    Paul

    Just the two (2) partitions for the USB stick clone...

    /dev/sda1 /media/ubuntu/RALLY2 vfat ro,nosuid,nodev,relatime,uid=999,gid=999,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=437,iocharset=iso8859-1,shortname=mixed,showexec,utf8,flush,errors=remount-ro 0 0
    /dev/sda2 /media/ubuntu/SPBLAZE64GB vfat rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,uid=999,gid=999,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=437,iocharset=iso8859-1,shortname=mixed,showexec,utf8,flush,errors=remount-ro 0 0

    Looks like the clone inherited the lock for the entire USB stick. I created /dev/sda2 partition thinking that I'll copy the files over but that inherits the lock too.

    The documentation isn't very good in any case.

    Linux:
    blockdev, hdparm

    Windows
    diskpart

    *******

    https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/administration/windows-commands/attributes-volume


    diskpart

    select volume X
    attributes volume clear readonly
    attributes volume set readonly

    But part of what the Windows one is doing, is reflected
    in a registry entry, which means when the storage device
    is unplugged and moved, the attribute doesn't travel with it.
    That suggests diskpart won't be the repair tool to use.

    Linux has a couple. The stick is likely to need removal
    and reinsertion, for any successful change to be re-parsed
    and used by the OS.

    https://serverfault.com/questions/678008/ubuntu-remount-a-root-mount-thats-changed-to-ro-as-rw-without-rebooting

    hdparm -r0 /dev/sd???
    blockdev -setrw /dev/sd???


    Thanks, Guru Paul !!

    Sounds more like a safety feature rather than a defective USB stick ?
    Probably a good idea.

    How to disable write access to USB devices using hdparm tool https://www.thegeekdiary.com/how-to-disable-write-access-to-usb-devices-using-hdparm-tool/
    ["Re-enabling write access" section]

    May try getting data out via data CD using Brasero.


    These imply some sort of hardware level change. I can
    find comments that an attribute may apply to the whole
    device, so if you applied to /dev/sda1, it would apply
    to the whole device /dev/sda. Suggesting it is stored
    somewhere in the MBR.

    But the level of documentation always seems to be the
    same on utilities at this level

    1) Terse manpage - in other words "if you don't know what
    you're doing, we're not going to help you".
    2) No traceability - never a description of what hardware
    bits or bytes are being modified. Almost as if the
    developers don't know what they're doing.
    3) Polite request in bugtracker to fix fucking documentation,
    add note to manual page that OPs apply to MBR and not
    to partition, cheerfully ignored.

    This is almost as bad as the "dirty bit" on Windows file
    systems indicating they need to be checked. For the longest
    while (years!) you could have a volume that kept getting
    CHKDSK automatically at startup. An autochk (that always
    runs), sniffs the "dirty bit" and starts a CHKDSK, then
    CHKDSK doesn't clear the "dirty bit" and the charade starts
    all over again on next reboot. Eventually, somebody figured
    it out, because Linux started setting the dirty bit from gparted,
    telling Windows to take a bash at it, after a gparted run
    had made changes.

    I don't know where else to look for documentation on this.
    As long as I see reports from users that they're trying
    hdparm or blockdev at partition (/dev/sda1) or device (/dev/sda)
    level and things aren't improving, I'm left to wonder how
    this really works.

    There's the possibility of a slide switch, and perhaps
    USB config space can report the position of any such switch.
    But this behavior also smacks of something being written
    into an MBR (or a PBR). But without documentation, we'll
    never know. The Wikipedia entry for MBR doesn't have
    any storage feature which is an exact match, just a copy
    protect byte (not the same thing).

    We had a flash device at work, and it had some sort of
    per-page readonly status bit that could be set. The people
    doing bringup on my processor board, managed to "spray"
    the flash with read-only (the odd page was read-only,
    others remained read-write), but they managed to figure
    out how to restore full operation (somehow). That's just
    an example of documentation at work. We know the devices
    have some mechanism, because the "top" and "bottom" blocks
    had a special status and could be made "persistent" and
    readonly, so the bootstrap would never be lost. This
    allows recovery of the device and makes it non-brickable.

    Paul

    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Adam@adam@no_thanks.com to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Wed Mar 31 18:35:52 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    On 03/20/2021 03:02 AM, Dirk T. Verbeek wrote:
    Op 20-03-2021 om 03:02 schreef Adam:
    On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
    I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear


    Thanks, is it normal for the cooling fan to kick into
    high gear after starting the laptop for only minutes (~15) ?
    I've been shutting down the laptop for fear that
    it'll completely fail before I get all data from it.

    I've been powering it on only when absolutely necessary.

    Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.


    GKrellM shows CPU temperature is ~72.0 C. https://i.postimg.cc/FzfqqxHN/Screenshot-gkrellm.png

    Tried to open Thunderbird in old Ubuntu laptop to send image link (above). Temperature shot up to ~100.0 C. Thunderbird can be such a CPU hog.
    Got nervous. Killed Thunderbird from System Monitor.
    Old Ubuntu laptop survived it though.

    Turned ON the old Ubuntu laptop (without the optical drive) with the bottom panel OFF.
    Can see fan spins fine but may be old and cranky. How difficult to replace the fan ?
    Will disable optical drive in BIOS to take load off.
    Will retire old OCZ Rally2 USB thumb drive.

    As a test, old Ubuntu laptop downloaded large 1.6 GB Ubuntu ISO file.
    Can't verify because the <blah>SUMS are for an older revision.
    File size looks about right though.
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Paul@nospam@needed.invalid to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Thu Apr 1 05:13:07 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    Adam wrote:
    On 03/20/2021 03:02 AM, Dirk T. Verbeek wrote:
    Op 20-03-2021 om 03:02 schreef Adam:
    On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
    I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear


    Thanks, is it normal for the cooling fan to kick into
    high gear after starting the laptop for only minutes (~15) ?
    I've been shutting down the laptop for fear that
    it'll completely fail before I get all data from it.

    I've been powering it on only when absolutely necessary.

    Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.


    GKrellM shows CPU temperature is ~72.0 C. https://i.postimg.cc/FzfqqxHN/Screenshot-gkrellm.png

    Tried to open Thunderbird in old Ubuntu laptop to send image link (above). Temperature shot up to ~100.0 C. Thunderbird can be such a CPU hog.
    Got nervous. Killed Thunderbird from System Monitor.
    Old Ubuntu laptop survived it though.

    Turned ON the old Ubuntu laptop (without the optical drive) with the
    bottom panel OFF.
    Can see fan spins fine but may be old and cranky. How difficult to
    replace the fan ?
    Will disable optical drive in BIOS to take load off.
    Will retire old OCZ Rally2 USB thumb drive.

    As a test, old Ubuntu laptop downloaded large 1.6 GB Ubuntu ISO file.
    Can't verify because the <blah>SUMS are for an older revision.
    File size looks about right though.

    72C is a bit high for an idle.

    The 100C likely means the CPU is throttling at that point.
    If your cooling system was completely broken, even throttling
    would not bring down the temperature, and THERMTRIP would
    turn off the machine at maybe 110-120C. 100C on the other hand,
    is intended as the "peak long term temp". You can probably
    run it that way for 100,000 hours (fan won't last that long).
    The 100C is not a silicon limit, it's the limit of the
    so-called "organic packaging" the CPU sits on. Back when
    integrated circuits used ceramic packages, you could have had
    the CPU run at 135C as the throttle point. But multilayer
    ceramic packages are pretty expensive, and in the case of
    modern CPUs, there wouldn't be enough contacts on the old
    packages, to do a CPU. A lot of the electrical contacts
    on a CPU, carry power, rather than signals.

    Cooling failure:

    1) Inlet or outlet vent blocked.
    2) Fan rotation slower than normal
    3) *No working fluid left in Heat Pipe*
    4) Paste is bad (only a problem when end-users paste it)
    5) Mount is no longer screwed down (unscrewed itself).
    [Desktop plastic parts have snapped before.]

    On a desktop, with six heatpipes in the cooling scheme,
    you can lose a pipe (3) without anyone noticing. A laptop
    on the other hand, typically does not have effective pipe
    redundancy. A heatpipe which has lost the fluid,
    does not cool very well at all.

    When heat pipes came to the computer industry, initial
    fabrication quality was poor. At least one product
    arrived, with no working pipes (which means none of
    the pipes had the two drops of fluid inside). This
    gradually improved, as people stole the ideas for
    sealing them. Today, you have a reasonable expectation,
    of every pipe being in working condition.

    The pressure inside a pipe doesn't have to be ambient.
    A pipe could, on purpose, be at partial vacuum, or
    could be up to a couple ATM, as this adjusts the
    boiling point of the fluid. (No, it doesn't have to
    boil to work, as the partial pressure of the gas
    is sufficient to create thermal transport in the pipe.)

    To repair a pipe, you'd find a replacement cooling
    assembly from a junked machine. You should not use
    an open flame near the pipe particularly, as the
    working fluid can be a few drops of alcohol. While
    water has been used in pipes, it's not the preferred
    working fluid. An alcohol could have a slightly
    lower freezing point, which might be a reason to
    prefer it.

    While we assume (most of the time), the problem is
    (1) or (2), it could be (3) and that would be a lot
    harder to diagnose.

    CPUs where the silicon die is exposed, it's easier to
    check that the paste is doing its job. On lidded
    processors, sometimes the lid is not in good
    thermal contact with the silicon. That's hard to
    diagnose.

    *******

    You can pop a SHA1 into a Google search and see if any hits
    come back. You might even find the page or file with the
    SHA1 in it. When a Google search using a SHA1 returns no
    hits, your download is bad :-)

    You have to choose a checksum type, typical for the epoch.
    Maybe a Ubuntu 8.04 CD would have used MD5 sums, in which
    case you'd do an MD5 sum. Maybe a later DVD, the checksum
    file used SHA1. Today, it might be SHA256 or even SHA512. The
    method in the previous paragraph, assumes the operator knows
    what epoch the media is from. Nobody would be using MD5
    today for a "security" purpose, but an MD5 could still be
    used as a download check. If you're worried about
    "fraud" or someone planting media on a server, MD5 is
    useless for that kind of issue.

    Paul
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Jonathan N. Little@lws4art@gmail.com to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Thu Apr 1 08:58:06 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    Paul wrote:

    1) Inlet or outlet vent blocked.
    2) Fan rotation slower than normal
    3) *No working fluid left in Heat Pipe*
    4) Paste is bad (only a problem when end-users paste it)
    5) Mount is no longer screwed down (unscrewed itself).
       [Desktop plastic parts have snapped before.]

    Missing one
    6) Poor initial design for cooling. Example my old Dell Latitude D820
    with nVidia GPU, and just about every Apple product that I have ever had
    the "pleasure" to work with.

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Dirk T. Verbeek@dverbeek@xs4all.nl to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Thu Apr 1 18:30:04 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    Op 01-04-2021 om 11:13 schreef Paul:
    Adam wrote:
    On 03/20/2021 03:02 AM, Dirk T. Verbeek wrote:
    Op 20-03-2021 om 03:02 schreef Adam:
    On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
    I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear


    Thanks, is it normal for the cooling fan to kick into
    high gear after starting the laptop for only minutes (~15) ?
    I've been shutting down the laptop for fear that
    it'll completely fail before I get all data from it.

    I've been powering it on only when absolutely necessary.

    Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.


    GKrellM shows CPU temperature is ~72.0 C.
    https://i.postimg.cc/FzfqqxHN/Screenshot-gkrellm.png

    Tried to open Thunderbird in old Ubuntu laptop to send image link
    (above).
    Temperature shot up to ~100.0 C.  Thunderbird can be such a CPU hog.
    Got nervous.  Killed Thunderbird from System Monitor.
    Old Ubuntu laptop survived it though.

    Turned ON the old Ubuntu laptop (without the optical drive) with the
    bottom panel OFF.
    Can see fan spins fine but may be old and cranky.  How difficult to
    replace the fan ?
    Will disable optical drive in BIOS to take load off.
    Will retire old OCZ Rally2 USB thumb drive.

    As a test, old Ubuntu laptop downloaded large 1.6 GB Ubuntu ISO file.
    Can't verify because the <blah>SUMS are for an older revision.
    File size looks about right though.

    72C is a bit high for an idle.

    I have a Thinkpad i7-2760 W520, an old but really good laptop (in the
    day the most powerful workstation in laptop form factor).
    The nVidia Server settings app tells me the throttling temperature is
    127 degC and with a second (4K) screen it is regularly idling at about
    90 degC.
    With just the build-in screen it idles at about 75 degC, nothing to
    worry about.
    This is with several programs like Firefox, Thunderbird, Signal and
    VeraCrypt open.
    Shutting down Firefox (with some 100 tabs) doesn't change anything.


    The 100C likely means the CPU is throttling at that point.
    If your cooling system was completely broken, even throttling
    would not bring down the temperature, and THERMTRIP would
    turn off the machine at maybe 110-120C. 100C on the other hand,
    is intended as the "peak long term temp". You can probably
    run it that way for 100,000 hours (fan won't last that long).
    The 100C is not a silicon limit, it's the limit of the
    so-called "organic packaging" the CPU sits on. Back when
    integrated circuits used ceramic packages, you could have had
    the CPU run at 135C as the throttle point. But multilayer
    ceramic packages are pretty expensive, and in the case of
    modern CPUs, there wouldn't be enough contacts on the old
    packages, to do a CPU. A lot of the electrical contacts
    on a CPU, carry power, rather than signals.

    Cooling failure:

    1) Inlet or outlet vent blocked.
    2) Fan rotation slower than normal
    3) *No working fluid left in Heat Pipe*
    4) Paste is bad (only a problem when end-users paste it)
    5) Mount is no longer screwed down (unscrewed itself).
       [Desktop plastic parts have snapped before.]

    On a desktop, with six heatpipes in the cooling scheme,
    you can lose a pipe (3) without anyone noticing. A laptop
    on the other hand, typically does not have effective pipe
    redundancy. A heatpipe which has lost the fluid,
    does not cool very well at all.

    When heat pipes came to the computer industry, initial
    fabrication quality was poor. At least one product
    arrived, with no working pipes (which means none of
    the pipes had the two drops of fluid inside). This
    gradually improved, as people stole the ideas for
    sealing them. Today, you have a reasonable expectation,
    of every pipe being in working condition.

    The pressure inside a pipe doesn't have to be ambient.
    A pipe could, on purpose, be at partial vacuum, or
    could be up to a couple ATM, as this adjusts the
    boiling point of the fluid. (No, it doesn't have to
    boil to work, as the partial pressure of the gas
    is sufficient to create thermal transport in the pipe.)

    To repair a pipe, you'd find a replacement cooling
    assembly from a junked machine. You should not use
    an open flame near the pipe particularly, as the
    working fluid can be a few drops of alcohol. While
    water has been used in pipes, it's not the preferred
    working fluid. An alcohol could have a slightly
    lower freezing point, which might be a reason to
    prefer it.

    While we assume (most of the time), the problem is
    (1) or (2), it could be (3) and that would be a lot
    harder to diagnose.

    CPUs where the silicon die is exposed, it's easier to
    check that the paste is doing its job. On lidded
    processors, sometimes the lid is not in good
    thermal contact with the silicon. That's hard to
    diagnose.

    *******

    You can pop a SHA1 into a Google search and see if any hits
    come back. You might even find the page or file with the
    SHA1 in it. When a Google search using a SHA1 returns no
    hits, your download is bad :-)

    You have to choose a checksum type, typical for the epoch.
    Maybe a Ubuntu 8.04 CD would have used MD5 sums, in which
    case you'd do an MD5 sum. Maybe a later DVD, the checksum
    file used SHA1. Today, it might be SHA256 or even SHA512. The
    method in the previous paragraph, assumes the operator knows
    what epoch the media is from. Nobody would be using MD5
    today for a "security" purpose, but an MD5 could still be
    used as a download check. If you're worried about
    "fraud" or someone planting media on a server, MD5 is
    useless for that kind of issue.

       Paul

    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Adam@adam@no_thanks.com to alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Thu Apr 1 09:52:45 2021
    From Newsgroup: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    On 04/01/2021 02:13 AM, Paul wrote:
    Adam wrote:
    On 03/20/2021 03:02 AM, Dirk T. Verbeek wrote:
    Op 20-03-2021 om 03:02 schreef Adam:
    On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
    I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear


    Thanks, is it normal for the cooling fan to kick into
    high gear after starting the laptop for only minutes (~15) ?
    I've been shutting down the laptop for fear that
    it'll completely fail before I get all data from it.

    I've been powering it on only when absolutely necessary.

    Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.


    GKrellM shows CPU temperature is ~72.0 C.
    https://i.postimg.cc/FzfqqxHN/Screenshot-gkrellm.png

    Tried to open Thunderbird in old Ubuntu laptop to send image link (above). >> Temperature shot up to ~100.0 C. Thunderbird can be such a CPU hog.
    Got nervous. Killed Thunderbird from System Monitor.
    Old Ubuntu laptop survived it though.

    Turned ON the old Ubuntu laptop (without the optical drive) with the bottom panel OFF.
    Can see fan spins fine but may be old and cranky. How difficult to replace the fan ?
    Will disable optical drive in BIOS to take load off.
    Will retire old OCZ Rally2 USB thumb drive.

    As a test, old Ubuntu laptop downloaded large 1.6 GB Ubuntu ISO file.
    Can't verify because the <blah>SUMS are for an older revision.
    File size looks about right though.

    72C is a bit high for an idle.


    At idle after closing ALL apps except GKrellM,
    I've seen it go as low as ~62.0 C.
    I have not seen it go below that.

    That noise comes and goes (even after completely removing the optical drive). It had a good day yesterday.

    For ubuntu-16.04.7-desktop-amd64.iso,
    sha1sum generated is...
    65fe391dd30949d62b381cdf12809f865f18d4d3

    Doesn't seem like many people download that revision,
    especially if the <>SUMS posted is for
    ubuntu-16.04.6-desktop-amd64.iso


    The 100C likely means the CPU is throttling at that point.
    If your cooling system was completely broken, even throttling
    would not bring down the temperature, and THERMTRIP would
    turn off the machine at maybe 110-120C. 100C on the other hand,
    is intended as the "peak long term temp". You can probably
    run it that way for 100,000 hours (fan won't last that long).
    The 100C is not a silicon limit, it's the limit of the
    so-called "organic packaging" the CPU sits on. Back when
    integrated circuits used ceramic packages, you could have had
    the CPU run at 135C as the throttle point. But multilayer
    ceramic packages are pretty expensive, and in the case of
    modern CPUs, there wouldn't be enough contacts on the old
    packages, to do a CPU. A lot of the electrical contacts
    on a CPU, carry power, rather than signals.

    Cooling failure:

    1) Inlet or outlet vent blocked.
    2) Fan rotation slower than normal
    3) *No working fluid left in Heat Pipe*
    4) Paste is bad (only a problem when end-users paste it)
    5) Mount is no longer screwed down (unscrewed itself).
    [Desktop plastic parts have snapped before.]


    Blew more compressed air around fan area and
    around the CPU/GPU and cooling pipes.

    Tightened down ALL screws, none seems to be loose inside.


    On a desktop, with six heatpipes in the cooling scheme,
    you can lose a pipe (3) without anyone noticing. A laptop
    on the other hand, typically does not have effective pipe
    redundancy. A heatpipe which has lost the fluid,
    does not cool very well at all.

    When heat pipes came to the computer industry, initial
    fabrication quality was poor. At least one product
    arrived, with no working pipes (which means none of
    the pipes had the two drops of fluid inside). This
    gradually improved, as people stole the ideas for
    sealing them. Today, you have a reasonable expectation,
    of every pipe being in working condition.

    The pressure inside a pipe doesn't have to be ambient.
    A pipe could, on purpose, be at partial vacuum, or
    could be up to a couple ATM, as this adjusts the
    boiling point of the fluid. (No, it doesn't have to
    boil to work, as the partial pressure of the gas
    is sufficient to create thermal transport in the pipe.)

    To repair a pipe, you'd find a replacement cooling
    assembly from a junked machine. You should not use
    an open flame near the pipe particularly, as the
    working fluid can be a few drops of alcohol. While
    water has been used in pipes, it's not the preferred
    working fluid. An alcohol could have a slightly
    lower freezing point, which might be a reason to
    prefer it.

    While we assume (most of the time), the problem is
    (1) or (2), it could be (3) and that would be a lot
    harder to diagnose.

    CPUs where the silicon die is exposed, it's easier to
    check that the paste is doing its job. On lidded
    processors, sometimes the lid is not in good
    thermal contact with the silicon. That's hard to
    diagnose.

    *******

    You can pop a SHA1 into a Google search and see if any hits
    come back. You might even find the page or file with the
    SHA1 in it. When a Google search using a SHA1 returns no
    hits, your download is bad :-)

    You have to choose a checksum type, typical for the epoch.
    Maybe a Ubuntu 8.04 CD would have used MD5 sums, in which
    case you'd do an MD5 sum. Maybe a later DVD, the checksum
    file used SHA1. Today, it might be SHA256 or even SHA512. The
    method in the previous paragraph, assumes the operator knows
    what epoch the media is from. Nobody would be using MD5
    today for a "security" purpose, but an MD5 could still be
    used as a download check. If you're worried about
    "fraud" or someone planting media on a server, MD5 is
    useless for that kind of issue.

    Paul


    I use whatever <blah>SUMS files are provided... http://releases.ubuntu.com/16.04/

    But, it's useless if it's not for the revision automatically downloaded,
    which most users do.

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